A Fine Line Between Stupid And Clever

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A Line In The Sand

Posted by bmac on June 2, 2008

A couple quick thoughts about McCain, and the line that’s beginning to get drawn in the sand between conservative bloggers. There seems to be three camps forming on this. In no particular order they are:

1) Luke-Warm McCain supporters.

2) Those Who Will Sit This One Out. (that would be me)

3) Luke-Warm McCain supporters who are pissed off at Those Who Will Sit This One Out.

I guess we could have an addendum of Hard-Core McCain supporters, but there’s only one that I know of.

I have no problem with the first two, but the third group is starting to piss me off. The general attitude seems to be becoming very angry and accusatory to Those Who Will Sit This One Out. As if choosing not to vote for McCain is in effect a vote for Obama, and somehow Those Who Will Sit This One Out will be responsible for making him President.

Sorry group three, but you’re wrong. It’s not my fault the Republicans seem to have some kind of death wish for their own party. Not voting is still a choice, maybe not the choice you like, but I certainly have the right to make that choice, and who the fuck are you to tell me it’s going to be ALL MY FAULT if a full blown communist becomes the next President of the United States?

If I have a choice between eating a steaming pile of dung, a steaming pile of dung with maggots, or not eating, I think I’ll choose not eating thank you very much, but that’s just me.

If you want to vote for McCain, or campaign for him, go for it, I honestly don’t care, but don’t get all haughty about me or anyone else not voting for him. If you want to be pissed off, direct your anger where it belongs, with the Republican Party that put up such a dismal candidate in an election year that was a gimme for them.

It’s my duty as an American to voice my displeasure with a political party that does not represent my views, and “holding my nose” as I pull the lever for a guy that in no way represents my views, or in my opinion, the views of the Republican Party in general, does nothing to voice my displeasure. Not voting for McCain is my only outlet to voice my opinion to a party that that won’t hear anything else.

I won’t chastise you for doing what you feel you must, and I expect the same in return.

Rant over, I feel better don’t you?

32 Responses to “A Line In The Sand”

  1. Kowboy said

    Thanks bmac. You pretty much summed up my thoughts on this too.

    I’ve been told by some the if I don’t vote, I can’t bitch. I tell them that if I were just a lazy SOB who didn’t bother to go vote, they’d be right. But if I make a decision not to vote based on my opinion that none of the candidates are worth a shit, then it’s a different story. I no longer consider myself a Republican, but rather a Conservative. If the Republican Party ever decides to once again hold dear the principles it had in the past, I’ll come back to the fold. But if they keep going in the direction they are, I’ll be hoping to see the formation of another, truly conservative party.

  2. bmac said

    Yep, that’s the gist of it Kowboy.

    Somethin’s gotta give, and it won’t be our fault when it does.
    I’m no longer technically a Republican either, and when I changed to Ind., they sure didn’t try to woo me back.

  3. MCPO Airdale said

    I’ll vote for McCain if Obama gets the nomination. If it’s Hillary, I’ll only vote down-ticket. There is not much difference between MAVERICK and Shillary. Obama, on the other hand, is a dangerously naive neophyte with a socialist streak a mile wide.

  4. Hermit Dave said

    I think a lot of us Morons are thinking along the same lines as MCPO Airdale. There’s tactical voting … trying to force the GOP to the right … but Obama is a bridge too far. I’ll put on the hazmat suit and vote McCain vs. Obama, if it comes to that.

    More to the point of the post though, I agree completely. Noone makes a worse case for McCain than the GOP or DIE blowhards. Moron Central has its fair share, and they never fail to alienate me. Please, insult me some more, that’s bound to work!

  5. bmac said

    That’s totally cool, and I respect you guys wanting to vote for McCain against Obama, it makes sense, and I get it.

    I won’t, but we can certainly agree to disagree on it.

    Just so long as you don’t get mad at me for not voting for him, and equally respecting my reasons, and we’re all sqaure as far as I’m concerned.

  6. S. Weasel said

    Don’t forget the undecideds. That would be me. I just about make up my mind that I can do it, the McCain does some asshole-y thing and breaks my concentration.

    Obama is one of the most dangerously unqualified people ever to run for high office. But for that very reason, he might be one of the most ineffective. I can’t vote for him, but I might just write in Zombie Reagan…unless McCain shows me sumpin’.

    But I’m totally with you on the Category Three people, though. You see a few of them on Ace’s and quite a lot at Hot Air. They seem to think calling you a crybaby and making fun of your ‘widdle feelings’ is somehow going to make you do what you want. It’s light-bendingly stupid behavior.

    And a rather larger group of party hacks seem smugly certain that, when November rolls around, we’ll all just come to our senses and pull the lever for McCain.

  7. MCPO Airdale said

    I know the MAVERICK type. I served with them for 30 years. The ego required to fly single seat aircraft into combat is significant. There are, in a few, a runaway aspect to it. It appears most frequently in Ring Knockers.

    MAVERICK is a prick and believes his judgment and values are paramount to any others.Therefore, any disagreement on policy is a personal attack on MAVERICK. The appellation DIGJAM!* applies.

    *Damn, I’m Good. Just Ask Me!

  8. bmac said

    That’s a good point I haven’t thought about MCPO, pilots tend to be gargantuan assholes. Not that there’s anything wrong with that….

    Weasel, I think the tipping point for me was when Rachel Lucas became a group 3er.

  9. geoff said

    And a rather larger group of party hacks seem smugly certain that, when November rolls around, we’ll all just come to our senses and pull the lever for McCain.

    In my opinion, you have no choice. Barack pretty much told you that you have to when he said he would pass his national health care plan in the first 100 days. That’s a huge power grab by government, not enough time to formulate a sensible policy, and a certain route to disaster for our medical & pharmaceutical sectors.

    Yes, McCain screwed us on McCain-Feingold, and yes, he’s going to screw us on immigration. But so is Obama, and he comes with Carteresque foreign policy as well.

    You may want to send a message to the GOP, and in principle that’s a great idea. But make no mistake, if Obama gets elected, you’re looking at another New Deal/Great Society set of changes that will never, ever be undone. FDR and LBJ crippled conservatism and saddled us with crappy programs and principles that are still going strong. A term or two with Barack Obama will kill off conservatism, no matter what message you try to send the GOP.

    What good will it do to elect a conservative President when we’ve already effectively socialized medicine, food, and energy? What good will it do when the education budget has bloated and industry is buried under the weight of a zillion environmental regulations?

    This is it, folks. We will lose enormous, unrecoverable ground if Obama is elected. We’ll lose a fraction of that ground if McCain is elected.

  10. Hermit Dave said

    I have zero problem with people who won’t pull the lever for McCain. Everyone has their own criteria for voting and god knows McCain is a huge POS on many issues. The argument that Obama won’t be able to accomplish squat is a pretty good one, and frankly, given what I see as a tough economy over the next few years, I’d prefer to see a Dem in the White House right now. Obama is just too much for me to stomach, but I respect that your milage may vary.

  11. S. Weasel said

    Of course I have a choice, Geoff. I’m not “sending a message” if I elect to opt out. I’m making a calculation that Barry can’t cash the check his mouth is writing, but McCain might. And they both believe in global warmening.

    Presidents aren’t emperors, no matter what Kos says. It’s not just who gets in, it’s what he’s able to do when he gets there.

  12. bmac said

    That’s a pretty bleak picture you painted there Geoff. I’m only gonna dis agree with you on what Obama is going to be able to realistically pull off.

    I think he’ll be an incredibly embattled President, and I think even a good number of Dems in the House are going to be wary of pushing all of his agenda, and he’ll be a guaranteed one-termer.

    There’s also Iraq to deal with, the first post-Bush Presidency, etc. He’s gonna have his hands full, to say the least.

    Also, if he doesn’t get elected this time, you can bet he will be in 2012, and after four years of the media tossing his salad, he really WILL be the fuckin’ messiah by then.

    Might as well get it over with is all I’m sayin…

  13. geoff said

    And they both believe in global warmening.

    …but Obama’s platform extends beyond global warming.

    Believing that Obama won’t be able to pass his legislation requires a lot of optimism. With a solid majority in Congress and a lot of initial momentum, we will lose the health care battle. We will lose the education budget battle. We already lost the farm subsidies battle, and that will probably get worse.

    With Obama’s naivety on foreign policy, we are certain to lose influence in Asia, and the battle over Iranian nukes.

    We may be able to save the energy industry. But I’d look for Clintonian cuts in the military.

    As far as 2012, I think it’d be fun to watch the Clinton and Obama camps blaming each other for losing in 2008. I’ll bet they’d be squabbling right up until the next election.

  14. geoff said

    Let me put it this way:

    Would you have abstained in a McCain vs. LBJ election?

    Would you have abstained in a McCain vs. FDR election?

  15. Green Eggs and McCain said

    Would you could you in a box? Would you could you with a fox?

    I would not vote John in a box. I would not vote John with a fox.
    I will not vote for John McCain, the GOP is down the drain.

  16. S. Weasel said

    As JackStraw (the last Ace o’ Spadesian not to have a blog) says, we can’t win them all and they can’t all be the most important election in the history of the republic.

  17. geoff said

    Heh. The 1980, 2004, and 2008 elections stand out as pivotal elections in my mind. The problem is that we’ll have the Democratic President/Democratic Congress combo this time around.

    Oh well, I’ve said my piece. I sure hope y’all are right, but it’s not a chance I’m willing to take.

  18. S. Weasel said

    Well, I haven’t made up my mind yet, but I suspect the very fact we’re having this conversation means the GOP is doomed (barring a really spectacular Obama gaffe, which isn’t out of the question). They’re excited about their guy and we do nothing but argue about ours. This isn’t good.

  19. nicedeb said

    I agree wholeheartedly with Geoff.

    I don’t buy into the premise that Obama won’t be able to get anything done with a Democrat congress. These are the same folks who are pulling for him, now, against Hillary. How many notable Democrats in congress are for Hillary, anyway? They are almost all on the same ideological wavelength as Obama. And the more moderate Dems will be forced to toe the line.

    If you are expecting sanity from the party that actively did everything they could think of to undermine the troops during a time of war, I want to know what your smoking.

    Yeah, I know…when one of their own is in charge, they’ll sober up, and behave responsibly. I wouldn’t bet on it. The inmates will be running the asylum, and I don’t think it will be pretty.

  20. bmac said

    The big problem with this argument?

    Everybody’s right.

    For me, it a matter of principal. I’m not going to vote for a party that goes out of it’s way to alienate me, it’s just that simple.

    All I want is an opposition party, that’s all. I don’t need a Reagan, I’m not asking for Republicans to suddenly swing to the right of Atilla the hun,I just want a real opposition to the Democrats.

    McCain will all but erase what tiny, tiny, opposition is left right now, and that ain’t gonna help anybody.

    Pay now or pay later, but either way, we’re gonna pay. I’d rather pay now.

  21. Count me in group 1, barring some particularly retarded move like Huck for VP. Then I’d have to think about it.

    One way or the other I’m going to be fed a steaming pile of dung whether I express my preference for or against maggots. So I’ll be ordering my dung sans maggots.

  22. Stormy70 said

    Truthfully, voters are not reading a bunch of blog wars. It just seems like it.

    Obama should be polling 20 points ahead of McCain at this point historically, that he is only even or behind, points to a fatally flawed candidate.

    As this is America, you can vote or not vote, and gripe or not gripe.

    And I have the right to bitch you out, because it is the American way!

    So…vote for McCain or it will be AVP 2 at the theaters for four years.

    Do it!

  23. bmac said

    So…vote for McCain or it will be AVP 2 at the theaters for four years.

    Best argument I’ve heard yet.

  24. MCPO Airdale said

    Stormy – AVP 2?! No need to go all Apocalyptic on us!

  25. Nigel said

    Bmac, I haven’t given up on McCain yet. Every time I think I might vote for him, he does or says something stupid to piss me off.

    I don’t want to hear more of this bi-partisan bullshit. It’s OK to work with Democrats, but not at the expense of completely giving up conservative values. That’s not “working with” Dems…that’s letting them bull you over.

    And if that is going to be McCain, then we may as well elect Obama.

    But I’ll give him until November to convince me. I have a post coming that will address this…

  26. bmac said

    And if that is going to be McCain, then we may as well elect Obama.

    My feeling exactly Nigel.

  27. Group Oner here.

    Not only am I reluctantly voting for the (barely) more conservative candidate, I’m selfishly voting against the candidate that would eliminate my business/livelihood immediately with one easy stroke of a pen on his first Defense bill. Philosophy sometimes takes a backseat to mercantile priorities.

    I prefer my dung with a nutty brown demi-glace, Chef McCain. Merci beaucoup.

  28. bmac said

    Makes total sense to me Cuffy, vote away my friend!

    I prefer my dung with a nutty brown demi-glace

    Maybe a nice Port would help you choke that down!

  29. Vmaximus said

    I am on the fence, I understand both sides of the argument. I don’t like McCain, but he is better than the big O. I am not going to criticize anyone that votes or not or even votes for a O Hillary for the entertainment value.
    I have been reading some of the literature that our founding fathers read. I am also reading contemporary histories of our early republic. (deToquville and Bautiste) (Democracy in America and The Law) both written in the 1830’s to 50’s

    I am dismayed at how far we have fallen.

    Given the choices, one is a pure socialist, the other is a pro military, anti jihad, pro life, moderately pro gun, global warming, no drilling in anwar, open borders socialist lite.

    What is one to do? I am probably going to hold my nose, but the repubs deserve to be PUNISHED

    V

  30. bmac said

    I am dismayed at how far we have fallen.

    Amen brother. I hate to be a pessimist, but we’re in deep shit.

  31. Stormy70 said

    The Republicans deserve to be punished, but the troops do not.

    I am serious, AVP2 will be all that is served.

  32. MM said

    I was in the third camp in 2008 and I believe the worst that I foresaw has happened. It was Palin that eased my mind voting for McShitstain. I remained in that camp in 2012.

    Now, if in 2016 Republicans put up Jeb or Christie, I’ve had it-no more shit sammichs, I’m sitting that one out at the top

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